Skyrim talk:Leveled Lists

Too long?Edit

Per this I think the page is now overly long, would it be appropriate to split some of the tables onto other more specific pages? It just seems a long page to link too and expect people to find what they want. --kiz ^talk_email 16:14, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

We do have heading and {{Linkable Entry}}s for that, but RobinHood70 and I have discussed splitting the page into multiple subpages, namely General (for pocket contents and such), Quests (unless it gets too long, then it could be split into quest lines), NPCs (for leveled lists on Bandits and such), and Creatures. • JA^Talk 16:26, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Ahhh, you'll note that all my tables include some way to link to them. But - there are a few of the individual tables with the same name. It just looks a bit too long, I certainly know I wouldn't even comprehend looking through the page as it is. I think a split sounds like a good idea - into the categories you (and RH) suggested above. --kiz ^talk_email 16:28, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

According to the Doc for {{Linkable Entry}}, you can specify a second or even third parameter to link to, in cases where there are multiple sections which share the same name. Also, now that I think about it we'll also need a subpage for Equipment (or something similar). • JA^Talk 16:54, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

(←) This sort of follows the same topic, I guess, but is this page meant to be comprehensive? What about leveled lists for things like Forsworn Items (not that I'd have had any interest in that :P) or Bandit items, like Jak said? If we do mean to include all of those things, maybe it would be better to have several pages instead of one. eshe^talk 19:43, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Thieves Guild SectionEdit

I think it would be appropriate to add a note to the Thieves' Guild section that, on completion of a thieves guild heist or fishing job where the stolen item is the same as one which you have enchanted yourself, the enchanted item may be removed from your inventory instead of the stolen item. This is a fairly common bug. In addition, separate tables showing percentages at each level (or merely at max level) might be useful to some people, as that might be an easier way of displaying the information. Lastly... if there's rings in the leveled list under the necklace section, shouldn't that be added to the "unconfirmed bugs" list? 99.111.84.234 03:01, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

The inventory note would be better placed in the quests themselves, which it already is. The tables might be useful, but I think we're going to need to really think through how we want this page to work, and how much information we want to put on it. We don't want to reproduce the entire set of game data on the wiki, after all. A good portion of it can probably stay on the CSList. You've got a good point about the rings; I'll add that looking at it, it looks to have just been a mistake when copying out the list, not a bug in the game. – Robin Hood↝talk 20:42, 28 August 2012 (UTC), Edit: 21:03, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Special LootEdit

There is a discussion of special loot at http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Dungeons#Special_Loot, and good discussion in the Discussion page there as well under Loot Mysteries. I'm not sure where the best place for a topic on it is, either in Dungeons, in Leveled Items, or on it's own page, but we should probably do one of the three and have the other(s) link to it. GregR (talk) 06:32, 24 December 2012 (GMT)

InventoriesEdit

I recently discovered the Leveled lists for inventory items in the CSList (examples) and thought they where worth documenting. I did a page here for all the none-DLC shown in that link as an example, to document it all would take several pages and would not fit on this currenty page.
I presume though, that a table like this won't be possible because I could see differences in my small sample (I did about 40 lists, there's 3800 'LVLI' records).

• Is this worth documenting full scale?
• Where would it all go?
• Would a bot be able to do/help-to-do this?

Just my first thoughts, (my sandbox is only part done, though the first section and enchantment part are complete). -- Kiz ^{(email - talk)} 20:58, 27 December 2013 (GMT)

My thought would be to split the page somehow. But until we do, document the lists here or where-ever, and use editor-id redirects for linking to them (we use editor-id faction redirects already and those lists have no useful name beside the id). We can then reorganize the page relatively easy. Anyway, I started that a bit for books (see Category:Skyrim-Leveled Lists and Category:Dragonborn-Leveled Lists). --Alfwyn (talk) 21:33, 27 December 2013 (GMT)

So, would a page at Skyrim:Leveled Inventory Lists do, or perhaps Skyrim:Leveled Lists/Inventory? And create redirects for each {{LE}} on the page? -- Kiz ^{(email - talk)} 21:42, 27 December 2013 (GMT)

Yes, the bot could help out with this. I haven't actually decoded the LVLI records in my database yet, but the documentation we have makes it look very straight-forward. The only trick would be figuring out what to document. I don't think we want all 3830 levelled lists on the wiki...or do we? – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 23:10, 27 December 2013 (GMT)

Well, (to be helpful) surely we want whats useful? So an NPC *somewhere* needs to use the leveled list, is that something we could find, running through the NPCs inventories and checking for a LVLI record? Then after that check them manually? -- Kiz ^{(email - talk)} 23:16, 27 December 2013 (GMT)

That I can do. Heck, I might even be able to add the quest-added inventory lists, if there are any. Sorry, I'm a bit tired today and hadn't clued in to what your ultimate goal was here. Now that you've spelled it out, yeah, that should be fairly easy. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 23:27, 27 December 2013 (GMT)

Right, I didn't mean to over complicate it, it was whilst we were doing the NPC inventories I thought we might as well do it all. I hadn't thought of the bot doing it, hence why I started by hand, I presumed it was going to be one those "you'll have to look at them all individually jobs" where there would be quite a lot of false-positives. I presume there still will be, levelled lists used in the game elsewhere that we might find that we have no need for, i'll hold fire till you can get something sorted then? -- Kiz ^{(email - talk)} 23:56, 27 December 2013 (GMT)

(←) I was forgetting two things. The first is the user-friendly item names. I don't have those readily available, but I've dumped the editor ids into a file in a similar format to your table and I'll send it to you by e-mail. Most of the editor ids are obvious anyway, like "SteelAxe" or "ArmorLeatherBoots". The second issue is that in some cases, there are leveled lists of leveled lists (of lev... you get the picture). I've gone a couple of levels deep, which should hopefully get you most of what you need without getting too messy. Databases aren't well designed to do this kind of multi-level thing.

If you need more than that, I can probably do something with time, but I think you'll find that the Excel sheets give you most of what you need, and you can use cslist for the rest. They'll be on their way to you shortly. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 04:57, 28 December 2013 (GMT)

Email received, unfortunately my phone can't open spreadsheets. Thanks, I didn't expect much till atleast midweek and even the just a word data dump. I'll be on this tomorrow, cheers :) -- Kiz ^{(email - talk)} 06:49, 28 December 2013 (GMT)

Thanks! Just opened it, I don't know what you meant by "not enough" 9000 rows seems enough to be getting on with... I'll see how importing spreadsheets into wiki works now! -- Kiz ^{(email - talk)} 09:55, 28 December 2013 (GMT)

Hahaha...I just meant if you need things like the in-game names instead of the editor ids, or if you want me to generate a list of all the possible leveled item lists you can get. It's actually a fairly simple program to make sure we've got all of them, come to think of it, so if you find you're missing a lot, let me know. I might also be able to raid Nephele's database for the in-game names. That'll take some work, but nowhere near as much as me getting them all into my own database. :) So, long story short, if you find you need either a complete list of the in game item names, it can be done with a little time, just let me know. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 10:19, 28 December 2013 (GMT)

What do the values in GLOBAL mean? I'm a little confused on how they fit in? -- Kiz ^{(email - talk)} 10:36, 28 December 2013 (GMT)

There can be a chance, that a list will produce no item at all. This chance can be a fixed number; or a global variable can be used instead, usually so events in the game can influence it. For example this list uses a global that is initially set to 100, so the player is sold no Skyforge Steel equipment (not generated by that vendor list). If the player advances far enough in the Companion quests, the value of the global is changed (probably to 0) and the player can buy the stuff now. --Alfwyn (talk) 11:48, 28 December 2013 (GMT)

I presume if they're all NULL that they're not worth documenting? -- Kiz ^{(email - talk)} 11:54, 28 December 2013 (GMT)

I have not seen the spreadsheet, but yes if no global is used or if the chance none is a fixed 0 there is no need to document this, just if something interesting is going on. --Alfwyn (talk) 12:16, 28 December 2013 (GMT)

(←) Skyrim:LootSilverHandBooks10#Loot: I tried to document lists particular to the subject on the page, leaving more general lists to be defined elsewhere. One thing that might need thinking about is, if there is for example a 75% chance at a potion list, which has a 90% chance none, I described it as a 7.5% chance at a potion, linking to the (currently non-existent) potion list. There might be a bit of confusion, if the target now describes the 10% only too - will depend a bit on the exact form it is documented. A bit experimental, but I think it might be better to document generally used lists at one place - of course limited copying of tiny lists can be done too. I did so with LItemIngotSilver15, which contains only a single Silver Ingot. --Alfwyn (talk) 16:09, 22 January 2014 (GMT)

I'll just link these for some monstorous tables: Complete lists for DG seperated by Top Lists, Sub Lists and Sub Sub Lists, and this part complete list for DB seperated in a similar manner. These will both be slightly (talking ~15 rows a table perhaps) per this. The skyrim one will need further seperation, RH made me this, any ideas upon further seperation categories would be appreciated. Google Doc of it colors are green for finished (Sandbox1 currently) and orange indicates it's being worked on (Sandbox2 currently). Thats it off the top of my head for the moment... --Kiz^{(email - talk)} 17:37, 22 January 2014 (GMT)

Just an update: Dawnguard and Dragonborn are done and nearly done. Skyrim will commence either later on tonight or tomorrow at some point, to start with I shall pick out all weapons, then armor, then ingredients (about the three biggest list types) for both Top, Sub and Sub-Sub and get them all nice and tabl-ized, once they're all ticked off i'll re-do the spreedsheet to see what i'm left with and post it here again. --Kiz^{(email - talk)} 18:12, 31 January 2014 (GMT)

Just another update (thanks Robin for this!) I asked and recieved for any further lists that RH could make me, after reassessing the situation a weapons page (and I presume similar problems occur for armor) are no longer feasible. One layer (of which there was another atleast as long) can be found in this revision of my sandbox. Due to such length weapons (and I presume armor) will be split per type. So all the main types of weapons will have there own page of lists. I'm just going to dump all the Daedric into one page to get an idea for length. If someone has any better ideas/solutions feel free to poke your nose in! --Kiz^{(email - talk)} 15:29, 10 February 2014 (GMT)

what determines the level for these "leveled lists"?Edit

Suppose I level all my skills to 100, but I never leveled up (ie no points in mp/hp/stam). For the purposes of dungeons and leveled lists, am I level 1 or 81? 4tran (talk) 21:17, 23 January 2014 (GMT)

If you have never, ever leveled up, then you are level 1. It would take more effort than it would be beneficial to level all your skills to 100 without leveling up at all though. Jeancey (talk) 21:24, 23 January 2014 (GMT)

Thanks - I was initially saving my level ups for emergency heals, but later realized that that was stupid 4tran (talk) 07:23, 20 February 2014 (GMT)

(←) And for the purpose of creature inventory, it is the creatures level, not the player level determining the level. I just tested this with a mod, giving a level 3 creature a (wrapper) list with 10k items from a leveled list of items Level 1-20 with the "all levels <= PC's Level" and "each item" flags set. My character was lvl 17, but the loot consisted of roughly 3.3k each of Level 1-3 Items, and no higher level ones. --Alfwyn (talk) 17:46, 20 February 2014 (GMT)

Doing some more tests, this time with a lvl 17 creature, and lvl 3 and lvl 5 characters, it turns out the loot never exceeds the character level. So it is the minimum of creature and character level counting for creature inventory. --Alfwyn (talk) 18:26, 20 February 2014 (GMT)

Soul Gem List Not Accurate?Edit

I have no idea what is meant by the Standard, Shop, and Special categories for soul gems, but if the standard column is used by merchants who sell soul gems, then according to this chart, I should be unable to purchase Greater Soul Gems until my character is level 15 and unable to purchase Grand Soul Gems until my character is level 20, and whether or not the Greater or Grand Soul Gem being sold is filled or empty is entirely random, though weighted. However, this is NOT my experience. In my experience, I can find Greater Soul Gems for sale several levels before 15. My current character is still level 14, though on the cusp of 15, but she has been finding Greater Soul Gems for sale for a few levels now. However, ALL of the Greater Soul Gems she found for sale were always already filled until the last level or so, and this is what I have noticed with multiple characters now since I started taking note of when these items showed up for sale. I simply cannot find empty Greater Soul Gems to purchase for several levels even though I can buy filled ones. Grand Soul Gems operate in the same manner, and I keep seeing filled Grand Soul Gems for sale for several levels before I can find an empty one to buy, no matter how many times I reset the merchant's inventory, and my level 14 character has been finding filled Grand Soul Gems for sale for a level or two now, possibly longer. So I'm not sure what information this table is trying to convey, but I consider it suspect. Valeria (talk) 02:08, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Looking into the Creation Kit, it appears that the lists for Shop Gems are indeed wrong. Filled soul gems sold by merchants have an equal chance of being any of the white soul gem types, too, so that should probably be removed from the table. It appears that this may be a matter of the wrong leveled sublists being cited for one particular type of vendor (either General or Spell), but regardless. --Fenrirwolfiepup (talk) 01:51, 30 November 2024 (UTC)