User talk:Legoless/Sandbox/5

Camp StuffEdit

Hey Lego! Let's use this page. One thing we have to consider: we write one unmarked page, we write them all. ;) --Krusty 22:17, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Sounds fine to me. None of them appear to be completely devoid of contents. Although we'll need to decide on how to handle any unofficial names given. A note at the bottom should be sufficient. For at least one (Two Decker Camp), it appears that the devs just forgot to add a marker. The cell is named, and the UOP adds a marker. I'm probably finished for tonight though; I'll get working on Two Decker and that one near Bravil tomorrow. Legoless 22:57, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm done for as well, as the stuff in #1 indicates - but it seems like they all have enough info to warrant a page. One technique (that I tried in #1) is to simply add "unmarked" to the introductory text; I don't know if it is enough, but that is one way of handling it, I think. I'll make some 4:3 versions of the images tomorrow as well. --Krusty 23:02, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

I've checked Carandial's camp and found that it does in fact have a map marker. I'm not sure why it doesn't work, but the "official" name of the camp is actually "Carandial Campsite". I've changed it in your sandbox, but in case you're the one to launch it make sure to use this new name for the article title. I'm going to check the UOP release notes to see if it adds a map marker.

I noticed you left a question mark when saying the camp was "overgrown with __". I'm not sure if you were looking for some kind of CS name or what, but the terrain type doesn't seem to display it when selected with the paintbrush. I just called them ferns, hope that's ok. Legoless 15:57, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Looking good! I'll have to rename the image again, but that's not a problem. Article works perfectly, so just go ahead and launch. I'll bet all my money that the UOP adds the map marker - I get absolutely nothing on the PS3. By the way, I'm thinking about marking this for cleanup. I just couldn't make it work in 4:3. --Krusty 16:03, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

It doesn't mention anything about it in the changelogs. Perhaps it comes from the supplemental patch, which I don't have installed. In which case it will need in-game PC testing with the unofficial patches installed, something I can't do at the moment. Maybe I should look into map markers on the CS wiki to try to understand them better. For now, I guess we'll just leave the note off and maybe add some sort of verification tag ('good question' on the talk page?). Legoless 16:17, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Very odd. I'm pretty sure the PS3 version comes with all patches, but maybe I'm wrong. A VN-tag is probably a good idea. --Krusty 16:24, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Don't worry, these are the unofficial patches I'm talking about. Mods, basically. I'll launch the page and mark this problem as a good question on the talk page. I don't think verification is appropriate, as this is all guesswork based on a video I saw of Two Decker Camp. Probably should have mentioned that earlier, now that I think about it... Legoless 16:29, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

No problem. Let me know if you want/need some in-game rambling on your various projects in #3 - for now, I'll move on to yet another camp... :) --Krusty 17:10, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

The abandoned camp is a real trouble-maker - I seriously hope you can find some flowers in the area. Also, are you able to determine the Oblivion Gate that destroys the camp? (from this section? I'm having a real hard time figuring it out from the descriptions on that page - but I checked and the camp IS completely destroyed by the gate. --Krusty 20:44, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

(←) I believe it's number 49, which is placed in the Great Forest section. I'll have a look in the CS tomorrow, but I'm betting the Oblivion Gate will be the most exciting thing about this camp. Which reminds me, we'll need an image of the Gate as well. Legoless 20:56, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Good idea; the Oblivion Gate page will probably be the only place we can link to the new "Abandoned Camp"-page - at least, that's what I'm thinking. :) --Krusty 20:58, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Your confusion over the region was justified; the CS called the gate "WW002" - Great Forest indeed. This camp should be pretty fun, as this must be one of the first Oblivion Gates to get its own article (excluding the Isolated House Gate, which doesn't have anything of interest). Legoless 21:06, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

I've added all the plants I could find inside the map marker borders. I'll try to look at what is enabled when tomorrow. Legoless 21:14, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

I just took a look at the gate again - and all of a sudden, there are two SACKS and a Metal Tankard next to what appears to be a destroyed tent. Now, I'm not an expert on Oblivion Gates, but that IS odd. Btw, the only surviving flora seems to be the three Motherwort and three Viper's Bugloss plants. Just for the perfection. ;) --Krusty 21:29, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Took ANOTHER look (with another character) at the gate, and there's definitely two sacks on the ground next to a destroyed tent. Question is; are the sacks present (but hidden) until the gate appears? Or will the gate spawn two sacks? As mentioned yesterday, I don't know if this is standard gate design or what it is - but it is REALLY worth looking into. --Krusty 23:18, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Sorry I haven't been able to respond, I've been busy. Oblivion Gates never spawn anything but enemies and bad weather - everything it already present since the start of the game. For instance, that big rock beside the camp? That's hiding the charred ground below, which you can actually see if you turn collision off on the PC. There are definitely two sacks in the camp, remembering from my own personal experience (my computer can't run grass very well so it's usually turned off, which reveals things like that) and from looking in the CS (one is a middle class clutter sack, I believe). Like I said, one look at each object in the cell will reveal what is present when, which I'll try to get around to doing. Also, I'll need to rely on you for any sort of environmental ramblings, as the place just looks a complete mess in the CS.

Perhaps an image with a closed gate would be a better idea for when the article is finished, so that a quick visual comparison between the two versions would make it past "glowing Oht portal > no glowing Oht portal". But then again, the Gate is the only thing of interest about the whole camp, as it basically adds a dungeon entrance to an otherwise undistinguishable campsite. What do you think? Legoless 15:56, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, never thought about closing the Gate. Its been ages since I've closed one of these things, so I'll try that later on. Regardless, it seems like we have a lot of rather surprising info to add; two sacks, initially invisible, a destroyed tent and so on. I'll try to ramble as good as I can (the area is a bit bare-bones, though), both before, during and after the gate. Let's see where it leads us. I too have been quite busy, but it seems like I can spend some more time on Wiki work from now on. Oh, and I started the Walker Camp thing in #2 - another complicated bastard, but hopefully a fun one. My wording is terrible though, so feel free to tweak and turn as always! --Krusty 16:34, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

(←) Here's all the data I think would be useful. I wrote it shorthand, so it needs a legend of sorts.

• perma = always there
• tam = before Gate
• ob = after Gate
• motherwort/other ___ = I listed the two tents and related items based on the location of the persistent motherwort plants, so "motherwort rubble" is a pile of rubble nearest the motherwort, and "other rubble" is on the opposite side

The List:

• tinder pile - perma
• fireplace fire - ob
• hanging pot - tam
• knocked over pot - ob
• cooking planks - tam
• two bowls - tam

• motherwort tent - tam
• buried motherwort tent w/ rubble - ob
• motherwort rubble - ob
• motherwort bedroll - tam

• middle class clutter sacks (x2) - ob
• burnt bodies (x2) - ob
• burnt trees (x2) - ob
• ground blades (x2) - ob
• oblivion "cloud" (glowing red around gate) - ob

• "kvatch plank" - ob
• other tent - tam
• other bedroll - tam
• other tent cover - ob
• other rubble - ob
• bonfire - ob

• 1-3 daedric gate enemies (if gate is open)
• west weald rocks and boulders - tam
• oblivion boulders - ob
• ladys smock plants (x2) - tam
• nightshade - perma
• motherwort (x3) - perma
• bloodgrass (x3) - ob

• honeysuckle bushes (x2) - tam
• holly bushes (x2) - perma
• elderberry bushes (x2) - perma

Placement Errors Needing Checking:

• 1 west weald rock is enabled instead - bug (in-game checking needed to see if it is visible) (I have no idea what this rock is supposed to look like)
• 3 hidden(?) nightshade plants (needs in-game checking before & after gate) (I can, for the life of me, only find two plants after the Gate is closed)

It might be better to group them into their separate categories (ob, tam, perma) so that it will be easier to write a separate description of each version of the camp. I'll leave it up to you. Legoless 19:50, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Wow and damn! No excuse for me no more! I'm not sure we'll want to go into so much detail, but it will be interesting to make three descriptions of the area. Unfortunately, time wasn't one my side anyway, so it will probably take a day or two before I can really give it a go. Then again, no hurry and all that. :) --Krusty 22:09, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I added the info I felt necessary for the page; going into too much detail is probably needless, but there's still a few oddities and they are now mentioned. I would really like you to go through the thing one last time (and, if you're up for it, add the flora locations to the first paragraph). I also realize that the header and the first sentence are incredibly redundant, and that is something that we should work on as well. Not a real problem, though. Page is shaping up! --Krusty 11:26, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Right, the Abandoned Camp is finished as well. With the exception of an image, I can't think of any more stuff to add (too much rambling can be a dangerous thing) and I added my observations to the Placement Errors Needing Checking-section above. All three Sandboxes are now ready for CS check - and launch. :) -- Krusty 10:52, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

I've checked it in the CS and tweaked the page a bit. I think it's ready for release. I also changed the name 'Abandoned Camp' to 'West Weald Camp'. I think we should at least try to stick to something similar to the official name (which would be something like Random West Weald Oblivion Gate Number Two). In reply to your testing of the placement errors, the three nightshade are right beside the visible two, but now I'm pretty sure they're permanently covered by rocks. The mossy West Weald boulder I mentioned (in confusing shorthand, which I apologise for) is by the base of the Oblivion Gate and should stand out against the grey rocks of the Deadlands if visible. I'm reasonably confident we can add these two bugs to the page as well, but another check might be needed if my explanations helped you. Legoless 11:16, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

A quick response on the Nightshade plants; I managed to find all three of them (two of them are almost invisible and one is inside the rock), but they are there to be harvested before the Gate appears. After the gate, I guess the third one is buried inside the rock - I searched for it for a long time, and came up with nothing. Anyways, camp name change is okay - I haven't checked but the sacks probably respawn? As for the West Weald Boulder, I can't identify/find it - there's some rubble lying around, but no unusual boulders - maybe it is not worth mentioning? --Krusty 11:25, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

If the rock isn't immediately noticeable, it probably isn't worth mentioning. Thanks for the reply on the nightshade, I'll go add it. Also, the sacks are safe, but since the bedrolls get destroyed it isn't the most optimal house. Walker Camp is finished by the way, you can publish it. Legoless 11:37, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Brilliant! I just launched the Walker Camp - with a NeedsImage tag. Both pages looks good! --Krusty 11:48, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Camp Stuff 2Edit

I've published Two Decker Camp, and I've begun working on Fat Ramp Camp and Fisherman's Rock (my two favourite camps). Hope everything's in order. Legoless 13:48, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Okay with me! I started working on Collarbone Camp in #1. Let me know if you need any rambling! ;) --Krusty 13:53, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

I think #3 has enough rambling, but it needs to be checked in-game, so maybe if you see something interesting in another nearby cell that I missed you could add it. Like I said before, the CS doesn't have much of a view distance! Legoless 16:19, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Just took a look on Fat Ramp Camp and I think the page is just fine; I added a tiny bit of rambling and filled out the OPRP tag - go ahead and launch! :)--Krusty 19:34, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

As far as I'm concerned, Collarbone Camp in #1 is finished - needs the final CS work, the usual links and a more precise count of the surrounding flora, but I can't think of anymore to say about the place. --Krusty 12:31, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Wrote a draft for Sweetwater Camp in #3 - even managed to push in a bit of Lore, just to make things interesting. --Krusty 19:00, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Quite an eerie choice, considering the events of The Infernal City. Sorry about my inactivity on the project, but I promise I will get back to checking the camps this weekend. Legoless 19:36, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Not to worry! I needed a quick break from the Isles, so I found myself a cozy little camp. What do you mean, the events of The Infernal City? (sorry, still haven't read it) --Krusty 19:40, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Probably shouldn't spoil it, then. A lot of blood is spilled near Sardavar Leed. Legoless 19:44, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough - I need to read that book, its been sitting on my shelf since it was released. Anyway, while Infernal City-events could be added as a very brief note on the ruin page, I just mentioned Sardavar Leed because of Fort Alessia - wish I knew what THAT name is about, but no lore to be found on that place. Anyways, a bit of lore never hurt a page - not even camp pages! ;) --Krusty 20:07, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

(←) Hmm, quite the contrary it seems, at least for Infernal City notes. This discussion was started because of Infernal City-related notes on the Sardavar Leed and Water's Edge articles (the former being added by me). It was decided upon to only talk about the Infernal City in the lore namespace, although no further action was taken into creating the lore pages. Anyway, the camp is what we're concerned about, and it has nothing to do with the novel. I just get a creepy feeling around that area (which makes no sense, as the landscape is actually very nice). I don't have any problems with the bit about Alessia; the more gabbing the better! Legoless 21:33, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

I've begun working on Camp Ales in sandbox 3. Collarbone and Sweetwater are both finished, so sandbox 1 is free as well. Legoless 11:26, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Cool stuff! I can't be of much help with the plugin-related camps (Beth hates Sony!), but let me know if you need anything! --Krusty 11:30, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Don't worry, the plug-in doesn't actually effect the camp itself. A bandit "carrier" is teleported there during the quest, but that's it. I'll need the usual sightseeing description once I'm done (should be a good one). Legoless 11:48, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

That was three in one day! Excellent! Now, Fisherman's Rock is a bit harder - do you want to start, or should I give it a go? --Krusty 18:15, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

You can do it. The CS doesn't capture the swampy feeling very well - bright pink water and what have you. I took a quick look at it in the CS, and it's pretty basic. Mogens Wind-Shifter get enabled during the quest, and he's the enable parent of the other three people. No need to look into the NPCs in-game. One thing I would like you to test is sleeping in one of the beds. In my experience it has happened to me twice: I sleep there for 24 hours, and when I wake up a random bandit is in my bed. I'm guessing they spawn on the road or somewhere nearby, and have a sleep package in their AI which causes them to go to bed on top of you. It might be worthy of noting if it can easily be duplicated, even though it's probably not unique. I'll check it in the CS as well. Legoless 19:08, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Sounds like a challenge! I'll have a look at it tomorrow and - unfortunately - have another chat with Mazoga. Anyways new stuff is up in #1--Krusty 21:47, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

(←) A giant pile of rambling is ready to be studied (and tweaked) in #3. I'll go talk to Mazoga now - tested the bugs you mentioned BEFORE the quest, and nothing happened. Plan on testing them during and after the quest, just to be sure. --Krusty 15:59, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, this is definitely not the way to add a second image; breaks up the layout everywhere - but something to consider for later! Where do we REALLY want the other images? --Krusty 23:58, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

To avoid disturbing any text, I tried moving the image down a bit. The list creates a nice empty space for an image. Although I doubt we'll need secondary images for most of the camps. I suppose we'll just play it by ear, unless you have a better suggestion. Legoless 00:36, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Much better! I agree, it will be a minimum of Camps that will need two images, but I thought we should test it before making any requests from our hard-working photographers. I'll Speedy the 4:3 Scar-Tail image now - mostly because his face was too bright and because it would be nice to have original shots on the camp pages. --Krusty 00:43, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Well, we now know what to do with the requested West Weald Camp image. I'm finished for tonight though; hopefully Fisherman's Rock will be completed tomorrow. Legoless 00:58, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Aerin's Camp is finished, and I started work on Black Dog Camp in #1. --Legoless 14:38, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Brilliant! I removed Aerin and Tobern and started a new one in #3. After spending a week in the Isles, I can use the sun! :D --Krusty 15:06, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Gnoll's Meeting Camp written in #3 - took an extra look at Fisherman's Rock in #2 and there is not much more to be said. :) --Krusty 10:02, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Oops, sorry - I forgot I promised to check the Bandit bug in Fisherman's Rock. Will do that now! --Krusty 10:19, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Hi. Sorry I haven't been checking these camps; I'm currently away. I'll try to take a look at them either later today or tomorrow. --Legoless 13:09, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

No worries and no rush! I just checked Fisherman's Rock and I can't trigger the bug, before or after the related quest. Additionally, there is a long way to the road, so unless some Bandit spawns nearby, I don't know. Maybe you can retrace your steps or something? --Krusty 13:19, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Camp Stuff 3Edit

I fast travelled to the camp, arriving when it was dark. I slept in the tent to the right of the bonfire in this picture for 48 hours,and the second time I woke up there was a bandit in the bed, who woke up at attacked me. It happened to me a second time on a different character after 24 hours of sleep, but otherwise under the same circumstances. Both times it was after the quest. That's all I can remember. It was probably just a weird coincidence, especially since I never triggered it again after that. --Legoless 13:28, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, no dice. I have slept in that bedroll for over 100 hours now (post-quest), and no Bandits in sight. Must have been a one-of - that you experienced twice! :D --Krusty 21:04, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

I wasn't expecting any results. No matter. I didn't get any camps checked today, but I noticed you've begun working on another unmarked camp. I'll be interested to see where the name "Red Lane" comes from; I wonder if it's similar to Two Decker. --Legoless 02:02, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, a camp before bedtime is relaxing! ;) Anyways, I'm as curious as you are about the name - mostly because the image name is completely different. Only the CS will tell. A bit odd actually, it is by far the biggest camp in Cyrodiil - and it is unmarked. --Krusty 06:11, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Very strange. The cell is indeed called RedLaneCamp, although the inactivated map marker doesn't have a name. Even stranger, a cell named RedLanesCamp is located deep in the Gold Coast, but it's a completely empty cell with nothing but trees. I can't check their proximity to each other, but someone on the PC could take a look. The name "Miner's Camp" was probably coined due to the two nearby "mines" (even though one is a fort).

Also in the area is the refugee camp for Kvatch, which brought to my attention the lack of documentation on the ruined city. I think it could do with an overhaul. When we finish these four camps, would you be up to creating an Oblivion:Kvatch (camp) page? Oblivion:Kvatch (city) could also be started on. Off the top of my head it only has about 11 interior cells and 3 exterior cells - it'd be pretty easy to go through. What do you think? --Legoless 11:58, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

As for the Unmarked Camp, I guess we just call it by Red Lane Camp and rename the image – exactly where the name comes from remains a mystery; there’s no lane and it is definitely not red – the only thing red in the entire camp is the Bergamot I overlooked last night. Still, let’s just call it that.

As for Kvatch; I agree that the Kvatch page is seriously lacking, but I just took a look around in-game, and when you take the pages for Castle Kvatch and the Chapel of Akatosh into consideration, the coverage is a bit more convincing. Still, the Refugee Camp could use its own page and the ruined city itself could use a better coverage than that what we currently have, so I guess an Disambig page would be the best solution. Even so, I think such a revamp should be discussed on the Community Portal, just to get some more opinions. --Krusty 14:48, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

D'oh, I didn't notice the building pages. Well then, I guess it's just the exterior. I was more concerned with the camp anyway; the current city page is probably fine. The fact that the "Kvatch" map marker actually leads to the Kvatch Encampment complicates the issue, so a disambiguation might be needed, but the two areas are practically linked together. I guess we could link to the camp from the city article with a note at the top saying something like:

This article is about the city of Kvatch. For the camp of the same name, see Kvatch Encampment.

Although then the people table might have to be split... I agree, this should be brought up on the community portal before we even think about working on a camp page. --Legoless 15:08, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Believe me, I can think of a LOT of NPC pages where it would be nice to link to a "Kvatch Refugee Camp" or whatever - it has always been a bit awkward to describe it as "the refugee camp south of Kvatch". ;) --Krusty 15:12, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

(←) Hello! Managed to miss your latest edit to the Red Lane Camp page, and it seems like it is ready to launch - only thing is the redlink. I'm not sure it is a good idea to start making redlinks on a page for an unmarked camp (in fact, I'm not sure I think redlinks is a good idea anywhere). For the Kvatch camp, I have given it a lot of thought and I think we should ask for opinions on the CP now. We have to seek consensus on the basic idea and suggest names, with the possibility that we're looking at a disambig page which will mean TONS of link changes. Kvatch is a really important part of OB and I'm pretty sure people will participate in the discussion. Nevertheless, I'll launch the Red Lane Camp tomorrow. --Krusty 22:00, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Sure, feel free to remove it. I don't think a disambig will be necessary, but we can discuss that on the community portal. --Legoless 22:40, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Hey Lego! Just to doublecheck - is there any more I can do in #2 and #3? With the exception of a recent talk page article (can't find it right now, though) talking about the same odd Bandit spawning in the camp, I think/hope oth places are good to go. Do you need any rambling in #1 or will you take care of it yourself? --Krusty 23:13, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

2 and 3 are ready for checking, and I can manage 1. I sorta got caught up in the lore namespace, but I'll try to get these published ASAP. --Legoless 23:22, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Wind Range Camp should be ready in #3. I'm going to make a post on the Fisherman's Rock page, just to see if anybody knows anything about a spawning bandit. --Krusty 15:10, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

(←) Hey Lego – and welcome back! I just visited two of the remaining unmarked camps and they are pretty hard to write anything about. On the Unmarked Places page, the camp referred to as “Mountain View Camp” is particularly hard, as it doesn’t even have a bedroll, any flora – or even wildlife (as far as I can tell). Most interesting thing is the connection to the plug-in specific spire (and the fact that I never saw the “camp” before) – but how to write about a place like this? Can you see anything interesting in the CS? --Krusty 07:21, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

The camp has a fireplace w/ pot, a Bowl, a lowerclass "house treasury" chest, and further down it has a campfire and a middleclass clutter sack. The cell has no name, nor any map marker. No flora either, just a whole lot of rocks. I think it's safe to keep that one on the unmarked pages; it's just a small collection of camp-themed objects. In fact, I think it could be fused with the "flagless flagpole" entry. They're so close that it can't be a coincidence. --Legoless 12:18, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Yup, we'll skip that one - it is basically a mistake it is even listed as a camp. The flagpole signals things to come (the spire) and the surroundings fits what's in the book perfectly. --Krusty 13:32, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Camp Stuff 4Edit

Hey Lego! I was wondering if you could check the CS names for the remaining unmarked camps, Mercenary's Camp and Valley Head Camp. The latter especially, as it is a very strange place indeed - and probably the most unmotivated tent in Cyrodiil. --Krusty 01:09, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

"Mercenary's Camp" is in MaladaExterior02. Perhaps "Camp Malada" would be a more correct name. "Valley Head Camp" is in an unnamed cell, so unless you want to call it "Wilderness Camp" I think the unofficial name can stay. (For future reference, likely for myself, the co-ords are 34,4.) --Legoless 08:08, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I made it! Or, at least half a page. ;) One question - does the small island of Bawnwatch Camp have a name in the CS? --Krusty 01:39, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

I'll make sure to check, although it's doubtful. --Legoless 02:07, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

I didn't see any names for the island in the CS. But I checked the camp, and revamped the article. --Legoless 20:37, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Cool! One of my main annoyances these days are the merge of the Flagless Flagpole and Mountain View Camp on the Unmarked Places page. I really have no idea what to do with it, as I don't know anything about Frostcrag - and, due to my lack of knowledge about what happens AFTER the plug-in is installed, I'm having a hard time writing anything that sounds remotely Wiki-like. If you know anything about Frostcrag, maybe you could give it a shot? As for the Mercenary's Camp, I think we can safely just leave it where it is. --Krusty 21:52, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

I've merged the flagpole entry into the Mountain View Camp section. I basically kept the text the same as it was - no need for the level of detail that we give to the individual campsite articles. --Legoless 22:12, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Good. You kept the name as well? One final suggestion - it shouldn't be listed under camps at all, due to the lack of a bedroll. I'll go ahead and create a 4:3 version of the flagpole. --Krusty 22:15, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Well, we can remove the camp section entirely once Valley Head has it's own article. Although I'm not sure if we ever came to a concensus on what to do to the Unmarked Place page. I'll voice my opinions again by suggesting we remove the camp section, leaving Mercenary and Mountain View with their own sections and linking to an "unmarked campsites" list under Oblivion:Campsites. What are your thoughts? --Legoless 22:23, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, since they are unmarked, they should probably be mentioned somewhere on the unmarked page. First of all, let's just make the section on the Campsites place. Then, I'd suggest a link (to the new section on the Campsites page) at the very bottom of the Unmarked Places page, similar to the Ayleid Wells link. I hope that made sense - its getting late! ;) --Krusty 22:37, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

(←) That's exactly what I had in mind. :D --Legoless 22:43, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

I'll go ahead and do it in the morning - that includes, just to make sure:

• New Unmarked Campsites entry on the Campsites page.
• Delete the following content from the Unmarked page; West Weald Camp, Carandial Campsitem Red Lane Camp, Two Decker Camp and Valley Head Camp (remember to check this one! ;)
• Rename Mercenary's Camp to... maybe Mercenary's Hideout? Rename Mountain View Camp to Frostcrag ???. Remove headerfor Unmarked Camps.
• Add link to Oblivion:Campsites#Unmarked Camps at the bottom of the Unmarked Places page.

That should be the operation in its entirety! Oh, I just wrote a brand new entry for the Unmarked Places page:

Bralsa Andaren’s Bedroll

This bedroll is placed near the Wayshrine of Kynareth, north of Dort Dirich and east of Nonungalo. It is occupied by eccentric master Destruction trainer Bralsa Andaren and you will have to track her down during the Destruction Training quest. The bed is free to sleep in, although Bralsa will sleep next to you between 11pm and 7am.

(map)

What do you think? Nobody can ever find that bedroll anyway, so it would be useful to put here - if not for anything else, then to fill out the huge gap caused by our Camp-fremzy! --Krusty 23:04, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

I think Mercenary Camp can keep its name - after all, it does have all the necessities of a camp, even if it doesn't qualify for a separate article. "Frostcrag Camp" might work, as well. Bed or not, it can hardly be described as anything else. The "Bralsa Andaren’s Bedroll" entry seems fine to me. --Legoless 23:20, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Good. I'll more or less turn in for the night (I'm too tired to perform all that moving right now), but in the morning everything will be changed. If you can't find the time to check the last Unmarked camp, I'll just make the page and you can check it from there. Nighty night! --Krusty 23:29, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Valley Head has been checked and published. All ready for you tomorrow morning - don't forget the coffee first! --Legoless 23:55, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

All done. It sounded a lot more complex than it actually was. Pages are not orphaned anymore and everything looks good. We'll see what people say. --Krusty 07:34, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Just took a look at Marsh-Punk Camp, and everything seems okay - but I found 5 Green Stain Cups near a tree a few feet away from the camp. Should they be included? --Krusty 22:54, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Oops. I can see them in the CS now. Go for it. --Legoless 23:06, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

(←) Hey Lego! I was wondering about an edit from earlier, namely this one. A user added a new list of camp contents, and we have a full article it in our sandbox. Does that mean that the content on the article is the correct one, or is the whole thing still just a wip in our mini-camp project? --Krusty 14:26, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

I noticed that, but I didn't revert is simply because it's better than nothing. Once I get around to checking the one in your sandbox, it will replace any incorrect info from the current article. --Legoless 16:04, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Ah, that makes sense! Looking forward to that - and will, by the way, see if I can find it in myself to pen another camp tomorrow. How I'd like that list of ours to be crossed out completely - but I keep interrupting myself with all sorts of other projects, and that is the way it should be, I guess. :) --Krusty 00:15, 25 August 2011 (UTC)